Help with ID

Hello All,
I have been a member for almost two years now but am still very new to the gem world. I have read almost every post on the forum (I can be a bit obsessive) and taken a few of the IGS mini courses and think this site and community are absolutely amazing. I have seen how much everyone is willing to help each other and it really is great. With that being said this is my very first post and I was hoping for some help with ID on these stones I received as a gift from a seller in Pakistan. It’s only about 30 carats total with the largest stone being a little over 5 carats. I have only done an SG test so far as I do not have any actual equipment and it came out to 3.11. I was thinking they must be tourmaline but any help would be much appreciated. I have attached some photos below.

Thanks

They appear to be peridot which are usually small and green to green yellow

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Pakistan + Photos = Peridot (Still just a guess, but most likely).

metamorphic origin rather than igneous origin fostertic olivine, variety periodot

It is always hard to identify gems with photos. But if I had to guess, I’d lean more toward peridot. Apple green.

One sure way to know peridot, if the inclusions can be seen) would be inclusions that look like Lilly pads. Some of the tiny white spots on the first picture remind me of the lily pads. If you have a loupe or microscope, they may be clearer.

I’ve been with IGS for several years now and recommend all the mini courses. I also highly recommend the professional gemology course. Very interesting and helpful - it isn’t as technical as gemology courses to become a gemstone lab gemologist - but very thorough.

Good luck getting ID.

Larry

Hello All,
Thanks for all the responses. I don’t know why but I kind of unintentionally ruled out Peridot because I have gotten some from him and the color was slightly different but I think you all are right. I’m going to recheck the SG and try to get some closer photos, as well as photos comparing it to the known Peridot I got from him. I have taken several of the mini courses on IGS but didn’t see a Peridot specific one. You are right they are absolutely great. Will update with better photos later and try to see if I can find any lily pad inclusions. Thanks

You can tell from the crystal structure it’s not tourmaline. Anyone who gives you gifts like this, by all means, keep them as a friend!

Welcome, first time poster and congrats on doing an SG as first ID step! I preach this here, but seldom does anyone listen! I am surprised that no one mentioned the obvious second step if tourmaline is suspected, and that is a visual check for dichroisim. It would be the rare tourmaline that didn’t show eye visible dichroic colors. One could also check with a dichroscope for the odd case of two shades of, say, green, which looked similar, as the 'scope will not lie, there will always be two different colors in the 'scope. Years ago I made my first calcite dichroscope with a good calcite crystal, a magnifying lens, a 35 mm film can and a cardboard mask, but they are so cheap today from China and so useful, there is no reason not to spend the $20 on Ebay to get one. Add a loupe or stereo microscope and you are well on your way to ID’ing almost anything. A polariscope, an interference sphere and a quartz wedge substitute would allow you to find optic character and sign and then there would be almost nothing you could be stumped by, but teasing out interference figures is not particularly easy. As the late Dr Hanneman used to say, the more gemology you know, the fewer instruments you need. And on the subject of tourmaline, usually you will also see some signs of the characteristic crystal structure, surface striations, etc. HTH, royjohn

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I am by NO means a professional. But judging by the cut stones that I have, and the stones you are showing. I would say that they are good looking Peridot specimens.

I’m more inclined to believe it’s Tourmaline considering the 3.11 SG.
Of course, a Hardness Test would also be helpful if you don’t have any “optical” identification tools. I don’t see any identifying inclusions that would make me believe this is Peridot which has a slightly higher SG.

I don’t know if I’d go as far as saying Chrome Tourmaline but definitely Green Tourmaline. To determine if it’s Chrome Tourmaline I believe you would require a lab report.
It’s nice, clean-looking rough. Need any faceted ? :smile:

Hi stranger. Great reply!! Hope you are doing well!!!

I had some other impressions that might help.
Based on your description—minerals that are grass green, exhibit conchoidal fracture, lack cleavage, have a specific gravity around 3.11, originate from Pakistan, and show dark edges resembling extinction like tourmaline with variations in light and color along axes—the primary candidate is tourmaline, specifically green elbaite or verdelite.

However, there are other possibilities. Included at the end are some simple tests for each (RI ect.) and provide a focused list with simple tests to confirm their identity, keeping in mind the optical properties like extinction and pleochroism you mentioned.
Grok and I dumped some properties for you.

List of Minerals

  1. Tourmaline (Elbaite/Verdelite)
  • Description: A borosilicate mineral, often grass green in its elbaite form (verdelite). It’s common in Pakistan, especially in pegmatites of the Skardu and Swat regions. Tourmaline has no cleavage, shows conchoidal fracture, and has a specific gravity of 3.0–3.2, closely matching 3.11. It exhibits strong pleochroism, with color variations (green to yellowish-green or darker green) when rotated, and straight extinction under cross-polarized light. Dark edges may appear due to pleochroism or zoning, where light absorption varies along crystal axes.

  • Why It Fits: Tourmaline’s grass-green varieties, lack of cleavage, conchoidal fracture, and specific gravity align perfectly. Its trigonal crystal system and optical properties (uniaxial, negative) produce extinction parallel to the c-axis, with darker edges in certain orientations due to pleochroism or inclusions.

  1. Epidote

  2. Description: A calcium aluminum iron silicate, sometimes pistachio or yellowish-green, found in Pakistan’s metamorphic rocks (e.g., Hunza Valley). It has a specific gravity of 3.3–3.5, slightly higher than 3.11, and shows conchoidal to uneven fracture with no true cleavage (though it may appear to have one imperfect cleavage). Epidote’s pleochroism can show green to yellowish hues, but extinction is typically inclined, not straight like tourmaline.

Why It Fits: Epidote can resemble grass green, but its higher specific gravity and occasional cleavage-like parting make it less likely. Its optical properties include birefringence and inclined extinction, which may not match the straight extinction you described.

  1. Prehnite

  2. Description: A calcium aluminum silicate, often pale to medium green, found in Pakistan’s basalt cavities (e.g., Balochistan). It has a specific gravity of 2.8–3.0, slightly below 3.11, and shows conchoidal fracture with no cleavage. Prehnite lacks strong pleochroism, appearing more uniform, and has inclined extinction, which may not align with the dark-edged, tourmaline-like extinction.

Simple Tests to Confirm Identity

These tests are practical for field or basic lab settings, focusing on physical and optical properties without advanced equipment. I always use weight, size, RI, crystal faces which I thought was a long upper trigonal face not characteristic of a tourmaline crystal (but not unheard of).

  1. Tourmaline (Elbaite/Verdelite)
  • Hardness Test: Scratch with a steel knife (hardness 5.5). Tourmaline, with a hardness of 7–7.5, won’t scratch easily. Quartz (hardness 7) may feel similar, but tourmaline’s trigonal prisms distinguish it.
  • Pleochroism Check: Rotate a loose crystal or thin fragment under a polarizing filter (or two crossed filters if available). Tourmaline shows distinct color changes (e.g., grass green to darker green or yellowish). Use a bright light to observe edges darkening in certain orientations.
  • Streak Test: Rub on an unglazed porcelain tile. Tourmaline gives a white streak. Colored streaks would indicate another mineral.
  • Crystal Shape: Look for striated, prismatic crystals with triangular cross-sections. Pakistan tourmalines often form euhedral prisms in pegmatites.
  • Specific Gravity (Field Estimate): Compare weight in hand to quartz (lighter) or epidote (heavier). Tourmaline feels balanced for its size.
  • Pyroelectricity (Optional): Heat gently with a lighter (avoid cracking), then see if it attracts ash or dust. Tourmaline’s pyroelectric property is unique but requires caution.
  1. Epidote
  • Hardness Test: Scratch with a knife. Epidote (hardness 6–7) may show slight scratching, unlike tourmaline’s resistance.
  • Cleavage Check: Examine broken surfaces. Epidote may show one imperfect cleavage or parting, appearing as flat planes, unlike tourmaline’s glassy, curved fractures.
  • Pleochroism Check: Rotate under a polarizing filter. Epidote shows weaker pleochroism (green to yellow) compared to tourmaline’s vivid shifts. Extinction is inclined, not parallel, if viewed under a microscope.
  • Streak Test: Produces a white streak, similar to tourmaline.
  • Magnetism (Optional): If iron-rich, epidote may weakly attract a magnet. Tourmaline won’t.
  • Association: Epidote often occurs with quartz or garnet in metamorphic rocks, not pegmatites like tourmaline.
  1. Prehnite
  • Hardness Test: Scratch with a knife. Prehnite (hardness 6–6.5) scratches more easily than tourmaline.
  • Fracture Check: Look for conchoidal, slightly brittle fractures. Prehnite’s surfaces are less glassy than tourmaline’s.
  • Color Uniformity: Rotate under light. Prehnite lacks strong pleochroism, staying uniformly green, unlike tourmaline’s color shifts.
  • Streak Test: White streak, like tourmaline and epidote.
  • Transparency: Prehnite is often translucent with a waxy luster, while tourmaline is transparent to translucent with a vitreous shine.
  • Association: Prehnite forms botryoidal masses or radiating crystals in basalts, not prismatic like tourmaline in pegmatites.
  • Consider it a little light in terms of saturation and hues.

Notes on Extinction and Optical Properties
“Edges appear to have dark areas like extinction” and tourmaline’s color variations along axes. In tourmaline, straight extinction occurs parallel to the c-axis in longitudinal sections, where the crystal goes dark every 90° under crossed polarizers (if using a microscope). The dark edges you observe are likely due to pleochroism, where light absorption increases in certain orientations, making edges appear darker, especially in green varieties. Zoning (color bands) in Pakistan tourmalines can enhance this effect. Epidote and prehnite show inclined extinction, which doesn’t match the straight, axis-aligned darkening of tourmaline.

Conclusion

Tourmaline (elbaite/verdelite) is the best match given its prevalence in Pakistan, exact specific gravity, conchoidal fracture, lack of cleavage, and optical properties like pleochroism and straight extinction. Epidote and prehnite are less likely but included for completeness. Use the hardness, pleochroism, and crystal shape tests to confirm tourmaline, as they’re distinctive and practical. If you have access to a loupe or polarizers, the pleochroism check is especially diagnostic for tourmaline’s grass-green hues.

Hello again all,
Thank you for all the information. I have been traveling for work so I have not had time to do more but I do have a loop and I’m going to run the SG test again to confirm 3.11. At the risk of sounding dumb, I have heard mention of polarizing filters and I am in the eyewear industry and have many polarized lens blanks in clear and other shades. Would it be possible to use a polarized lens blank in some way to create or achieve the same results as a polariscope?

Kody,

Here is an article on how to construct a polariscope.

The clear polarized lens blanks you have access to are perfect for the task. You will need two of them.

I agree with the suggestion these are possibly Tourmaline. The SG fits and the conchoidal fractures are known features. Testing for the optical sign will help…and agree with Roy (@royjohn) on testing for dichroism. You might be able to see some change in color by looking at the stone through various angles. You can also construct your own dichroscope. Another article on IGS shows how.

Cheers!