My cheap phone has a macro option for the camera. It screws up the white balance but it’s fixable in post processing. The pics I posted are straight out of the camera. They could be much better with post processing. See if your phone has a macro option
I have a very cheap but for me, functional photo tool. I bought a cheap Wifi microscope on Amazon and use a fairly featureless app to display on my phone. Since I do all the adjustments to the photo after it’s taken, I don’t need much more than this, but the resolution is good and for maybe $30 all in, it’s a steal.
The one caution is that the app demands full access to all your photos to take pictures, which as a rule, I won’t allow, so I simply screenshot the images. Here are some examples, but all the close ups i’ve posted in other threads use the same set up.
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Bob,
The camera app on my phone has several options but not specifically a “macro”. I did some experiments with the “portrait”, and “Food” selections, just to see what they did.
I can only imagine that my phone was silently yelling at me that it couldn’t find a face, and didn’t understand why the potatoes had too much glint…"
Jokes aside, it did give me better focus over a larger area at shorter distances, so I guess that is a “macro” feature of sorts. They both applied some contrast, sharpen, and WB corrections automatically. Which isn’t a bad thing for quick-pics. But post processing the images created more pixelated views.
With your setup using the macro feature, could the white-balance (WB) respond differently, if the stones were on a solid color background?
I have found some relief in WB and focus, if the background is homogenous. Shadows become problematic with white backgrounds though, unless you flood the field of view from all directions. A black background has its own problems, but certain colors and saturation really display good contrast when the background is dark.
Paul, those screen-captures have good image quality! Can’t complain about low cost options like that!
How much magnification can you get with the digital microscope?
I got a cheap ligjtbox…
Best picture quality improvement for the cost ever!!!
Agreed! Simple and cheap is always a good approach.
I’m not sure what my phone does when I switch to macro but the background doesn’t seem to have any effect at all on its WB change. I have a cheap phone and for what it is I’m happy with it. Like I said above I do have very very good camera equipment and lenses. Including the 105mm f2.8 micro lens from Nikon. I do a lot of wildlife photography and flower and insect photography. I can get excellent photos of my gems if I spend the time using my white box ect ect. I’m just lazy. Lol.
I am not sure exactly how much magnification I can get, but the unit is maybe 5 inches long and about an inch in diameter and includes a flimsy but effective stand. I’ve stuck stones right under the lens and I have no had problems focusing, so whatever the level, it seems it starts with the distance from the lens, and for the money, its pretty great that I can get that close.
I bought two initially, and returned one because it could not focus on anything more than roughly 3-4" away from the lens. The one i kept seems to have the same degree of magnification but i can take decent pictures from as much as 10" or so away from the phone.
One caveat if anyone buys one of these, the apps they come with, at least from my experience, are pretty terrible, one didn’t work at all. But it seems that the protocols are standard in many cases, as I used apps from other microscopes and a few worked. Unfortunately, the pro apps don’t seem to work (the Leica and other pro micro apps), but as I mentioned in the last reply, I have not needed the photo or video function to work, just the display on my phone. I didn’t want to give the app full photo access (which, annoyingly it requires), so I just take screen shots of the display.
If anyone wants the make of the scope and the various apps that I’ve found to work, please PM me and I’m happy to share (who knows how secure they are, though, so buyer beware).
Hi Bob,
Definitely becoming very familiar with how arduous taking images of gemstones can be. “Trial and Error” was my motto for way too long. Have been recently attempting to write notes down, so when I actually capture a successful image, I don’t find myself asking… “Now, how did I do that?”
Cheers!
Paul,
Great insight! Appreciate and share the concern on how much access we allow apps to control our phones. I am very hesitant to give any app access to essential features these days. They are just way to intrusive.
Cheers!
Yeah, it is not cool, IMHO; kinda crazy it’s only in the last year or so where there was even an option to gate anything but access to your entire photo album (and email, and contacts, and calendar, and…), but all that is way off topic. I’m happy you found that a bit helpful.
I agree Paul. I’m very hesitant to put ANY apps on my phone no matter what there usage is. Ie banking etc. Nowadays high end phones have such great camera abilities ( that’s about the inly thing they can change yearly on them) tgat one can use them alone especially srltudy7ng the PRO features. Or there are many inexpensuve lens for phones sold on line that can help. Getting a perfect picture tgat truely effects all great aspects of a stone is hard.
Best,
Ken
I have to say that to upgrade to even an inexpensive point and shoot would help, Troy. Megapixels are a marketing gimmick. It’s never about the megapixels, it’s about the quality of each pixel well. This is such a long thread, I didn’t know where else to start. The writer who mentioned focus stacking is correct. That’s the only way to get what you want with a DSLR + macro. But that’s the top of the heap, price-wise. I like so many things about the aquamarine shots, it’s gorgeous as a mineral and as cut stones. But I do find the out of focus areas distracting. Dead-on sharp is tough without the best of equipment, and that’s not something even AI can fix, for now, for an item as tricky as gemstones. Two other thoughts - I’ve become fond of the DxO family of software products. They are innovative and forward-thinking. Have no idea if you can get any as Android apps. For those wondering about concepts, I created a video for a fashion event, it’s called “The Basics of Light in Photography”. It’s in a Dropbox and I am glad to share.
Hi Cynthia,
First, welcome to the IGS community! I have learned a lot from this group and hopefully will continue to do so.
I agree this was a long threaded topic and everyone’s input was very helpful.
Thank you for the information. It has been challenging to squeeze every pixel I can out of my phone despite having optics not well suited for close-ups. I have been considering jumping into the DSLR world, but admittedly been hesitant to do so, since it’s still hard to justify the costs.
I would be open to recommendations on a medium frame DSLR and good / high quality lenses to start out with.
Cheers!
Good morning Troy,
Thank you for your welcoming message.
Have to say that I took a quick peek at your profile and I am intrigued by this: “student of ancient metal and gemstone cutting.” So many possibilities for conversation!
Cameras. In the DSLR world, sometimes you start with price point, sometimes you start with the wish list. The first important thing to know is that there are two formats in DSLR, FX and DX. The FX is the bigger sensor. We sometimes refer to the DX as the cropped sensor. It’s also called APS-C. The lenses for all DSLRs, regardless of brand, are for either the FX or the DX. For the full-frame / FX cameras, you can adapt them to use a lens for a DX. It does give you a cropped image. The main reason you’d even think about that is for the wider range of lens choices. I personally am a lifelong Nikon person, and that’s the gear I know best. I also use only Nikon lenses, but for many people, that’s a debate. Right now, mirrorless cameras are all the rage. The potential advantage there is that mirrors move, they shake, and in the high end, full frame DSLR macro world, you have to compensate for that by using a tripod and / or a remote shutter release. You’ll see the movement otherwise. For the wish list world, you’d look for a good quality macro lens + a camera that has the ability to focus stack. Not all DSLRs can do this. Focus stacking is a menu option. The tension here, if you will, is that macro lenses are tricky to use. The depth of field does not work the same way in a macro as in another type of zoom or prime lens. Macro lenses have a shallow depth of field, no matter the aperture setting. That’s why focus stacking was invented, I’d guess. The mirror stays up during that process. TMI, I am sure, but these are the first considerations that come to mind when thinking of photographing jewelry and gemstones. Also, last for now, one needs to consider the end use of the image. Do you want images that can potentially be printed large, and still look good? Or for a website, or social media only? Your choice of a sensor size and quality is the main factor there. I would hope that while this adds to an already long conversation, it might prompt some questions to help narrow down choices! -Cynthia
Next topic: Never post a high quality image on Facebook. Always size it down. Why? Because in the fine print, they own a “worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free right” to use any content posted on the site. Lower resolution / smaller sized photos are less desirable for this. Urban legend has it that more than one engagement photo has been used as a frame filler for imported photo frames.
All full frame lenses can be used on crop sensor cameras. I also am a lifetime Nikon shooter and a part time professional. The 105mm f2.8 micro as Nikon calls it. Same as macro in the rest of the world is not special as to depth of field. The slim depth of field is caused by close focusing. The alternative is pixels. If you use the D850 with the micro lens and shoot far enough away at f5.6 to f8 then you can crop to get the details you prefer. If you use the D500 and try to do the same thing you don’t have enough pixels to crop in close enough. The real challenge is to get the sparkle or scintillation of the gem. This requires a softbox and lighting correctly. I have both the aforementioned cameras and have played with almost any conceviable combination. I have used the delay to eliminate mirror shake, I’ve stacked, I’ve cropped, used soft boxes locked the mirror up, ,ect ect. If you are really interested in macro photography go to the ugly hedgehog forum. They have a macro section and a guy named sippy jug is a macro king. No spam and free. Last year my wife bought me a 1ft LED ring light that had a cellphone Holder in the middle along with a remote shutter release for the phone. I didn’t expect anything from it and didn’t play with it for 6 months. I’ll attach some pictures I took with it. It actually works well. Especially for what it is.
These are not the best but just a quick sample.
Hi Cynthia,
Thank you! I had never heard the term Focus Stacking until you, Bob (@bobdrbob) and (apparently way back at the beginning), Bear (@beargems) mentioned it.
I have stacked multiple low-light frames in astrophotography to integrate weak-signal sources (dim stars, nebulae) for deep-sky field images. After reading the article above, it seems both techniques are setup in similar fashion but use completely different math and algorithms. Very fascinating!
I am now curious if focus stacking can be used with my microscope camera to improve depth of field (DOF) for inclusions. Bear had mentioned image stacking early on in this topic…
… but I had assumed (probably incorrectly) he was talking about illumination balance or something kin to the technique used in astrophotography. It seems he might have been talking about the DOF issue…
I have a particular specimen that could definitely benefit from improving the DOF, discussed here.
My interests in ancient metal arts and gemstone cutting is a long-winded discussion. If you are curious to know more, please send me a PM.
Cheers!
Bob,
Thanks! I will look into those camera models you mentioned!
I like how the direct light from the light ring helps make the facets stand out in those images! That is really hard to replicate in a light box… (at least for me it is)
Thanks for the suggestion to visit the Ugly Hedgehog Forum. I will check that out and keep an eye out for sippy jug!
Cheers!
Hello Troy and gemstone community,
The only reason for this post, at the moment, is to explain the mechanics of Focus Stacking.
I put this as a proper noun because I believe in this case it is. I will try to find something in my collection to experiment with and post the results.
Focus Stacking is a feature in some cameras, not all. I use a Nikon D850, which is truly a take no prisoners kind of camera. For the focus stacking, you put your camera on a tripod with a macro lens, frame your object and in the menu you choose how many frames you want the camera to shoot and what depth increment you want them shot at. So for instance, you might choose 50 frames focused 1 mm apart from each other. But honestly, for the gemstones, I don’t know what those settings are yet. Then, Photoshop has a feature that will allow you to merge the images to create the illusion of the object being shot with that much depth of field. In theory, the images are identical in every way, except for where the sharpest areas are. So, as for the rest of the fascinating photography topics, I could go on forever talking shop. But I do realize this is not the forum for that. But what an interesting group of people, with wonderful ideas.
Exactly!!! The difference in macro gem photography is the 1mm you stated is cut down by about a measure of ten. Most people use a piece of equipment (I can’t remember what it’s called) that you mount the camera on and the gem on the other end. It has the capability of moving the camera in hundredths of an inch. Then they will stack several hundred photos to get the final photo. Helicon is a great program for this. Photo shop and affinity photo work well for 30 to 50 photos at most. Helicon can do several hundred. As you know the closer you focus the thinner the depth of field or depth of focus. After about f8 you start to have diffraction unfortunately. So you can’t just close the aperture and get a larger dof. Anyway enjoy your 850. I have a D500 and an D850. I’m thinking about getting a Z8 but don’t want to have to buy new lenses. I’m a perfectionist so I’m not sure if I would be happy with the adapter. Lol. Happy rocking!!!