I actually had my 1st Glued stone fall off Dop, twice! This is actually the same stone I posted earlier asking about how re-dop a stone that was 95%+ Done! Final Polishing. So this time I’m asking what is the Best (Reliable) Glue to use. Not sure I want to go with 2 part epoxy because of the extra time and setup time? This was a Rect Cushion in an oval Dop, then I tried a Round Dop. Neither worked. I’m assuming it’s basically due to the fact there wasn’t much flat contact with this cut, but there must be some glue that would work better without Waxing? Any ideas appreciated.
I had the same issues with my first few attempts, so don’t give up! Everyone seems to have a certain type of glue that they prefer, but what works for me is Loctite Ultra Gel Control (Blue and Black Bottle). It gives a little more set time to move around if you have not aligned properly and will fill some gap areas. Make sure that what you are gluing is clean (use alcohol to clean the surface of the stone being glued as well as the dop itself) and once you have it ligned up, apply a good amount of pressure as any super glue will not work well without the pressure activating it. Also, the surafce must be very flat. For transferring into a cone or V dop, do the same and have a good pressure in your transfer jig. I will also use Loctite Ultra Liguid Control (Red and Black botttle) to fill in any tiny gaps once the Ultra Gel Control has set. I will usually put the jig in a window sill or under a lamp (do not let get too hot!) to help set and lower the curing time. I cut a lot of stones and have won many awards using this method. I have also heard that Hot Stuff wroks great from other facetors, but I don’t have any experience to base this on. Hope this helps! For getting the dop off of the transfer to cut the crown, there is an excellent video on You Tube from The Faceting Academy that John Bailey uses and I have adopted to what works for me. Best of luck and keep cutting! Bill
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I like John Bailey and his Web site . His site helped me and i payed for a membership . You can find most of his stuff for free. I use Hot stuff this was what we used at a lab i worked at so i know the stuff but cyanoacrylate is cyanoacrylate any name brand should work, some have things in them to slow down the set and thicken them some i think it is acidic acide but i may be wrong . Hot stuff is fast grab and runny but i like it for the first dop of small stones . I agree with AquaLisa2 on how to do transfers and will use Loctite Ultra Liguid Control or similar slower set cyanoacrylate. Accelerators are nasty to use and can weaken the bond use at your own risk.
Thanks 007 (sorry I meant 707!). I also read somewhere that Hot Stuff was Good.
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Thanks AquaLisa2. I’ve been trying out the MagDop to help get better alignment, then bring Dop down once I 've centered, but could always use a little extra time in case it’s not quite centered. No issues with getting glue to hold on where there is little flat contact area? (Like Rec. Cushions) I think that was the main issue. Appreciate your comments!
You are welcome nonavitch! I rarely have stones come off the dop with this method, but it does happen. I teach faceting one night a week and it is common for some newer students to knock their stones off, so I have come up with a few ways of realigning gems. First, is there a clear break, like a puzzle where the stone came off and the hardend glue is still there? If so, you can get CLOSE by lining up the stone that way. You will still have to make ssome adjustments and cheat it, but it can work quite well. Second, if there is no glue left to guide where it broke off from (and the stone is not heat-sensitve, like Fire Opal for example) then I often will go back to wax. From the sound of your other post, it seem you are cutting the crown or polishing the crown. Hopefully, it is a stone with sides, i.e., rectangle, square or square cushion the you have equal symmety. A pear would be a little tougher. If you have a target dop, great. If not, use a larger flat dop like a 12 mm and put a little putty (I use Silly Putty) on it in the center a flatten it out. Place the table or what will be the table flat or as flat against it as you can while it is in your transfer jig (Large flat dop facing up). Heat the dop and the stone like you would normally use to dop with wax and center the stone as close as you can by eye. Close the transfer jig to make contact with the dop and stone. Take a look at it. Does it look level and straight? Now, if you have a machine with a digital angle dial (like Ultra Tec), this will be a big help, but not required. Put the stone in the chuck on the machine line up the correct index (say(96, 48, 24, 72) set the angle to 90 and bring it down to meet so that the girdle facet lays flat on on eof the indexes If you are at 96, flip it over to 48. How close is it? Should not be too far off. Is the table and or stone level? Now see how the other sides are say, 24 and 72. Start with one side and try to get it as level as possible by GENTLY heating the wax and stone. Don’t let the wax get too soft, only enough to allow it to shift the stone a little. If you are flat on 90 at 96, go bakc to 48. If it is not toching the lap, it has to be brought down halfway between the difference in distance from the 96 and 48. For example, if using a digital and at 96 and the angle reads 90.00, and at 48 it reads 90.12, heat the stone enough to soften the wax again and puch down GENTLY while holding the stone and dop to keep level until you get to 90.06 at the 48 index. Now, if you bring up the mast to read 90.00 ON 48, you should be close to the same when you flip it to 96. You may have to go back and foth a few times. Next, you want to check the othe rsides 24 and 72 for the same. Just remember that moving thme may change the 96/48 a little so just kep repeating until you get it as close as you can on all sides. If you don’t have a digital angle dial, that is fine, you just have to do the same by feel, tough and sound. Kind of hard to explain it all on here, but it does work. I have a student who knocked one of his stones off at least 10 times, so he became very good at this! Hope this helps get your stone finished! Best regards, Bill
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Hi Nontavich
Another method you can use if you do not like epoxy as a transfer glue. Melt some faceters wax on the end of the dop stick, but don’t make it too runny. Just warm enough to be pliable and so it will not stick to your gem stone. While this is pliable, push in the other dop with the stone on into it to form a exact mirror of the gem stone. When cool add 1 drop of Loctite 406 glue to the wax, push in the other dopstick and PRESTO - works well and will not drop off. I sometimes use this method with finicky stones.
Hi Tourmaline, thanks for the post. I’m a bit weary that the wax will not hold to the Dop, but I may give it a try. I’ve done a few hundred stones, mainly with wax, until a couple months ago when i shifted to Superglue and will probably “Stick” with that. I only had one stone fall off with glue. Just don’t think I had a good enough Stone to dop area, and pressure and maybe it’s time for some New Glue. I’ve read it start degrading after your first opening and I’ve been using it for many months. Just want to know the most reliable Superglue. Maybe there’s not much difference between them? Thanks.
I have found that 406 Loctite works very well. It has a good filling ability, high strength and takes a few seconds to set which makes for a small amount of movement possible.
The good side to all this with superglues - It is easy to remove with acetone so can be used for heat sensitive stones and stones with many cleavages.
Hope all goes well for you.
Regards Trevor